If there’s one takeaway from the ethical and ideological universe of “Higher Name Saul” — and its equally meditative mother or father sequence “Breaking Unhealthy” — it may be that particulars matter. Small choices and non-decisions are inclined to accumulate till, to paraphrase the character Mike, who appeared in each sequence, we discover ourselves on the finish of a street, not essentially aware of the place it started.
The pressure of amassed historical past was baked into the premise of “Higher Name Saul,” which ended after six seasons on Monday. However the creators of the present, which started its story — following the exploits of the morally-challenged lawyer Saul Goodman (Bob Odenkirk), the taciturn and principled fixer Mike (Jonathan Banks) and his fastidious drug lord boss Gus Fring (Giancarlo Esposito) — six years earlier than the well-known occasions of “Breaking Unhealthy,” went out of their strategy to reinforce notions of predestination inside the narrative. To an uncommon diploma, it spun a sort of clockwork ecosystem, teeming with portentous allusions, callbacks and foreshadowing that inspired probably the most passionate viewers to scrutinize its each body.
Behind the scenes, members of the present’s writing employees had been no much less obsessive. Ariel Levine, a employees author on “Saul,” and Kathleen Williams-Foshee, the script coordinator, had been a part of what was recognized internally as “the mind belief” — a gaggle of staffers who functioned because the present’s institutional reminiscence. Working intently with a workforce of writers, assistants and producers — led by the showrunner and co-creator Peter Gould — Levine and Williams-Foshee maintained detailed notes on nearly each individual, place, factor or occasion ever talked about or implied on both the present or its predecessor.
Talking with The Occasions on Tuesday, the day after the “Higher Name Saul” finale, they mentioned fixing laborious story issues (no matter occurred to Saul’s ex-wives?), making the selection to contradict “Breaking Unhealthy” and staying forward of Reddit sleuths. These are edited excerpts from the dialog.
How lengthy did you every work on the present and in what roles?
KATHLEEN WILLIAMS-FOSHEE I’ve been the script coordinator since Season 3 and in addition labored briefly as a author’s assistant in Seasons 5 and 6.
The Finish of ‘Higher Name Saul’
The “Breaking Unhealthy” spinoff has concluded its run after six seasons.
ARIEL LEVINE And I began in Season 1 as a postproduction assistant, labored as author’s manufacturing assistant in Season 2, a author’s assistant in Seasons 3 by 5 after which employees author for six.
Within the writers’ room, how did you retain observe of all of the historical past in play as you had been attempting to generate new tales?
LEVINE Within the room, determining what we might and couldn’t do, or what we should always and shouldn’t do, was primarily the writers’ assistants’ job. After I was a writers’ assistant, Kathleen and I might use this residing doc I made with each established truth or character on each “Breaking Unhealthy” and “Higher Name Saul.” So if Saul mentioned in “Breaking Unhealthy,” “I’ve been divorced 3 times,” that might be in there. Or if Gale [a meth cook in “Breaking Bad” played by David Costabile] had a résumé that appeared in a single shot in a single episode that mentioned he went to a sure school, that might be in there, as nicely. Each time the writers had been discussing a selected character or occasion, we’d communicate up within the second and inform everybody what is understood about it.
How lengthy is that this doc?
LEVINE [Checking her computer.] The ultimate model was 52 pages.
WILLIAMS-FOSHEE It was lovely.
LEVINE We expanded it right into a spreadsheet that we referred to as the Gillaverse Mega Timeline [after Vince Gilligan, the creator of “Breaking Bad” and co-creator of “Better Call Saul”] after which had smaller particular person paperwork for all the recurring characters.
What number of instances have you ever each watched “Breaking Unhealthy”?
LEVINE All over? Seven. However there are particular person episodes, just like the one which introduces Saul, or the one which will get into the connection between Gus and the Salamancas [collaborators in a cross-border drug cartel] that I’ve simply seen 20, 25 instances or extra.
WILLIAMS-FOSHEE I’ve watched it at the least 5 instances, during, however most likely extra. When [“Saul”] was in manufacturing, we had been taking a look at scenes from “Breaking Unhealthy” day by day.
How did you take care of story choices which may contradict one thing that was established on “Breaking Unhealthy”?
LEVINE We at all times needed to be as constant as doable, however we reserved the proper to resolve that one thing you noticed on “Breaking Unhealthy” might need been incorrect. Finally, we selected to do what we felt would serve this story. Saul’s diploma on “Breaking Unhealthy” mentioned that he graduated from the College of American Samoa in 1986. However that didn’t work for the timeline of our present, so we modified it to 1998. Equally, on “Breaking Unhealthy,” Saul mentions a second ex-wife, and there’s a deleted scene from the present the place he says he has three ex-wives, whole. We truly talked about together with a flashback scene to one among his earlier marriages, nevertheless it appeared like an excessive amount of to introduce a wholly new character. So we simply had him current two earlier dissolution of marriage certificates within the scene the place he and Kim [Saul’s true love, played by Rhea Seehorn] get married on the courthouse.
WILLIAMS-FOSHEE It helps that Saul talks out of his ass quite a bit, as a result of in a manner it is smart that not every thing goes so as to add up. He’s simply riffing always; that’s a part of who he’s.
What was the toughest needle to string between the 2 reveals?
WILLIAMS-FOSHEE I feel the factor that took probably the most time and reasoning was Gus and the tremendous lab [a giant underground meth operation that figured heavily into the plot of “Breaking Bad”]. We needed to indicate how Gus and Mike got here collectively to tug that off, nevertheless it’s clear that the lab has solely lately been accomplished within the timeline of “Breaking Unhealthy.” We determined that not solely did we’ve to elucidate simply how a lot effort and time went into constructing the lab, however that one thing must interrupt them at a sure level and primarily pressure them to start out over.
Followers on Reddit by no means let any element or perceived misstep go unnoticed. Had been there any oversights that got here again to hang-out you?
LEVINE I feel the factor that often haunted us was stuff that was shot that we didn’t learn about, or weren’t round for. Dates had been an enormous challenge. We had been at all times shouting at manufacturing, “Please, don’t present any calendars!”